I was slightly rooting for the Packers in this game, so I’m glad they won. At least it was a game all the way to the final minute or so. Gotta give the Steelers credit for hanging in there and keeping their composure.
I wonder if this game set any record for the worst running of a Super Bowl winner…
27 users commented in " Gratz to the Pack! "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a Trackbackfantastic game.
Rodgers – the second QB in Packers history to win the Superbowl MVP. Now he just needs to do it again to tie Bart Starr and hist 2 Superbowl MVP’s
Well played game to a team with a huge number of injuries.
And congrats to Tom Brady – NFL MVP. He deserved it.
I’ve really only got one thing to say about the Packers SB win.
“Brett who?”
Brett Who?
Come on!
Just because a (potentially) great QB succeeds a LEGENDARY quarterback does, in no way, detract from the accomplishments of the Legend. It just adds to the legend of the franchise.
Bart Who?
Roger Who?
Joe Who?
Get real.
You mean The same QB that never won Superbowl MVP? Just shows that GB made the right choice in not retaining his services.
Same game, same team – and Steelers would have had 7 rings.
Favre’s left figuring out how to work his new cell phone camera.
All the haters.
You know. The argument can be made (and is made by many) that Favre (who, the following season, took the Jets to 8-3 before he was injured – and the season thereafter took the Vikings to the Conference finals) could have taken the Packers (who he took to the conference finals his last year on the team) to potentially TWO superbowls in the past two years.
I don’t have much of a problem with them letting him go. I have never made the mistake of thinking that ownership/management EVER has anyone’s interests at heart other than their own when they make personnel decisions. Rice got fired. Montana got fired. Smith got fired. Unitas got fired. Some went on to have a few good years after they were traded/released/fired…some don’t.
This is why I am no fan of any team – just players.
Any argument can be made. I like Rodgers more than Favre, he’s more my kind of QB. He’s likely to make Green Bay forget Brett Favre.
I hope the NFL can work out their collective bargaining, as much because I don’t want to see a bunch of great players robbed of a season the way other players have been robbed of seasons in the past.
As a Packer Season ticket holder, let me just say, Brent has been forgotten.
That interception in overtime against the Giants to lose the NFC champsionship ( a mere 2 months before the now famous crying news conference ) sealed his fate if you ask me.
As a season ticket holder, you might remember this…
From 1968 to 1991, the moribund Packers had five winning seasons.
Then Favre.
From 1992 to 2007, the Favre-led Packers had one losing season.
From bottom dwellers to perennial contenders.
Yeah. Spit on him.
He sucks.
Forget about him. He couldn’t make up his mind whether or not he wanted to quit.
What a wanker.
After all, you have another good quarterback.
Glad that worked out for you. It really would have SUCKED if you got a crappy quarterback in exchange for Favre AND you threw away all those good memories of Favre as well.
Man. That really would have sucked. No future hopes for your franchise and thrown away memories of past glories (and fun…can’t forget the FUN of watching your guy (then Favre) do his magic) just because Favre and management couldn’t get their act together there at the end of his career.
I hope Rodgers doesn’t get hurt. Or start sucking.
Man your sports life would suck then, wouldn’t it?
I was done with Favre back when he lectured Walker on being a team player and honor his contract.
Then proceeded to sing It’s all about me!!!! from 2006 on, leaving Green Bay and later Minnesota hanging on if their esteemed QB deemed them worthy of his presence – all the time under contract. Usually only making his decision when he was begged.
And of course that’s all before his monkey actions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyKP2PQjmiE
Unfortunately he probably will make it into the Hall of Fame, certainly won’t be the first eligible round – and maybe not the 2nd either. Wouldn’t get my support – course neither would Michael Vick or Big Ben.
Best thing that can happen is for Green Bay to unretire his number and give it to a 3rd string Punter or someone. Maybe they’d appreciate it.
I agree about the Walker thing. The contracts in football are horribly one-sided, so much so that they can hardly be called “contracts.”
I have absolutely no problem with Favre un-retiring. He thought he was through. He changed his mind. Unlike Montana, Rice, and other hosts of legendary status, it wasn’t the TEAM which fired HIM, it was he who decided that he was done.
He changed his mind.
What in god’s green earth is wrong with that? He didn’t leave Green Bay “hanging.” He told them he was “going to retire,” but he NEVER FILED THE PAPERS. He remained under contract to Green Bay.
Green Bay didn’t honor the contract. They said. “Okay. You can come back. I know that you just led us to the Conference Championship last year, but you’re going to have to compete for your job.”
That’s “all about me?”
Favre still wanted to play. Green Bay let him know that it wouldn’t be for them. And RATHER THAN RELEASING HIM, they TRADED HIM to a crappy team – which he IMMEDIATELY made a playoff contender.
Thereafter, he didn’t “leave anyone hanging.” He said that he would likely retire, but, the Jets did the right thing and RELEASED him.
He found a team which had playoff potential which wanted him. He decided to give it a chance. He had an epic season – but with a bad ending – one in which he was, yet again, injured.
He didn’t know if he wanted to make another go of it. He was begged to come back by his TEAMMATES. (Bad, bad teammate that he is…) He agreed to come back. Had a bad season – started hurt and ended knocked out of football.
I don’t see one damn thing wrong with this from a player’s perspective.
And, if you don’t think that Favre, holder of every significant quarterback record which, in another thread, established conclusively wasn’t the result of “longevity” but of SUSTAINED EXCELLENCE over a long period of time, won’t be first ballot – you’re insane. You’re allowing your hatred of Favre (oh no! Scrub your brain of the Monday night game after his father died! Bad Memory! Bad!) to delude you.
Favre will be first ballot. Book it. Bank it.
The ONLY question will be whether or not he is a unanimous selection.
I concur that Favre will be a first ballot hall of famer. I suspect he won’t be unanimous because of the interceptions, the pornographic pictures and his adulterous behavior. But I could be wrong.
I think I’ve been pretty consistent about my criticisms of Favre throughout his career. I don’t challenge the notion that he’s been an excellent quarterback for a very long time, but I again say that if I were a general manager in the NFL, he would not be on my team.
I don’t give him nearly the credit for turning the Jets into a “playoff contender.” Since he left the Jets haven’t done anything but play in the AFC championship game twice in a row. I think I’ll give most of the credit for the Jets resurgence to the coach. As I recall the Jets started hot in 2008 and then fell apart down the stretch, in spite of having a first ballot hall of fame QB running their offense. I suspect most Jets fans remember the late season collapse more vividly than they remember the early season fast start. At the end the Jets were just as much a “playoff contender” as the Denver Broncos, and it’s no surprise both teams fired their coaches after each lost something like four of their last five games.
My opinion of Brett Favre is that he is flashy, emotional, telegenic and his demeanor and competitiveness really appeals to a lot of people. But his temperament and his judgment are, in the end, lacking. I know you disagree Drax, but that’s fine. I would rather have Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Steve Young or a host of other QBs as my starting QB before Favre. I think Favre wins and loses big games with questionable plays that are low percentage, high risk plays. When they work, he’s a hero, when they don’t, he’s a goat.
I prefer slow, steady and dependable to flashy, risky and headstrong.
That’s just me. You can field your own imaginary team, Brett wouldn’t start on mine.
> I think Favre wins and loses big games with questionable plays that are low percentage, high risk plays.
I think you are exaggerating the risk. IIRC, when we looked at the numbers, Favre didn’t come out particularly risky. Jay Cutler didn’t look so good, though.
But maybe I’m recalling incorrectly.
Yours,
Tom
As I recall, Favre came out looking relatively similar to John Elway and looking much worse than Joe Montana, which is interesting since I stated all along that Joe Montana is more my kind of QB and until the last few years of Elway’s career he played in a manner remarkably similar to Favre. I was not an Elway fan during most of his career and for many of the same reasons I wasn’t an Favre fan.
If I weren’t so lazy I’d compare Favre to Aikman or Young.
I think Drax claimed that Brady and Favre were remarkably similar, and if so that would need an explanation though.
However, my non-mathematical anecdotal explanation of the similarity of Favre’s and Brady’s numbers would be that Favre and Brady might look similar overall, but that Brady’s performance in big games is markedly different than Favre’s. I suppose that could be checked by looking at stats for playoffs only.
I think the numbers I quoted relative to Brady and Favre speak for themselves.
I agree that Favre was somewhat high risk, but, by the same token, he was high reward. He was significantly better than Elway in EVERY category of significance – per year and per career. The only two QB’s in the history of football who were better than him significantly in SOME categories were Montana and Young.
Both had Rice.
I don’t think that the photos will play any part in the HOF voting. I don’t think the interceptions will either since, as I established in my earlier thread, in the HISTORY OF FOOTBALL, there are less than a handful who were, even marginally, better than him (TD to INT or ATT to INT ratios).
Favre won more games with his high risk/high reward style of play than he lost. Some of those he lost were as a result of the situation he was in, i.e., he had to make a play, but didn’t. (Many more times – he did). But, because he threw so often (how much? Oh, yeah — MORE THAN ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL) he, of course, had more interceptions, and, because his team was ALWAYS (except 1 season) in playoff contention, and, because his team was frequently on television (and Monday night football) he threw many more interceptions which people SAW and which, because his team was in the playoff hunt (or in the playoffs) were significant interceptions.
There’s a ton of ways of looking at quarterback play. I liked the way Favre played – for the team he was on. (It’s no accident that the only superbowl he won was won with Reggie White…) I believe that his style of play was consistent with the team, i.e., he could not have won with his coach and his players by being a “Brady clone” or anything like that. His style fit the style of his coach and closed some of the gaps in the quality of his teammates.
Montana COULD play differently because he had a great defense (HOF)the best receiver in the history of the game, a “cusp” HOF running back (first to record 1000/1000 running/receiving yards). Of course, his style of play was consistent with his coach’s play calling and design. He COULDN’T do what Favre did. He didn’t have the arm. He was the best at what he did – but what he did was different than what Favre did (or was forced to do by circumstance).
If I were building a team, I agree, I would rather have a Brady, a Marino, a Manning, a Brees, a Warner throwing the ball. But, that’s if I could build the team and could get the players I wanted to play on that team so that the team would fit their capabilities.
Favre, Big Ben and a few other QB’s are/were able to win regardless of the players or the scheme.
But, he was FUN to watch. I’ll miss that.
Yeah, I’ll agree that Favre was fun to watch. Especially when I was rooting against him.
Sorry, couldn’t help it.
Drax is making a better intuitive case for me, Cosmic. But maybe as an older brother, I’m prejuduced towards older brothers.
If I were a stat master, I could do comparatives between all these quarterbacks including how they played when their supporting cast wasn’t as good (including Montana at KC) and when the opposing teams were better (in the playoff hunt more often / in the playoffs more often) – as well as the differences in stadiums. Rogers is much better in a dome than at home.
Not to mention the rule changes which seem to help quarterbacks more and more over time.
But I am not. Do we know a stat master like that? Bill James tries that sort of thing for baseball.
Yours,
Tom
Honestly Tom, it probably just comes down to a matter of bias and personality. I never liked Favre throughout his career. I didn’t like Randy Johnson either, and Drax is a big fan of Randy Johnson too. I just don’t favor their style of play and personalities. I don’t dispute their ability, I just wouldn’t want either of them, or a lot of other “all time greats” on my own teams.
Hey!
I’m a Maddux man!
One of the reasons I have liked Favre is set forth in my post above – I favored his ability to make “silk from a sow’s ear” which, in my opinion, exceeded that of any of his contemporaries – by far. (Elway was the closest.)
He was at his best (and worst) when pressed the hardest.
Brady flat out sucks if he isn’t protected. (Well, that’s probably a bit strong…) Manning falls apart in the playoffs and I’m convinced that the reason is that the defensive co-ordinators have time to generate game plans which confuse him.
Further, I’m convinced that Brady is a “system quarterback.” (They all are, of course, but you know what I mean.) Plug in a Bledsoe (they did) or pretty much anyone else and you get pretty much the same result. (The best results, of course, only happened pre Spygate… the “system” seemed to be working a tad better before they got caught… excluding the one season they opened things up when Moss was out to prove to the world he was the best ever to play the game…)
Same reason I like watching Big Ben play. He can turn a broken play into a ring, but, he does it by holding onto the ball too long too often which, imo COST them a ring this year…
Risk/Reward.
Safe is boring…
Drax,
as I have attended games since 1979, I do remember quite a few years of losing. I even attended the greatest comeback of all time in 1982 coming back from 23-0 at halftime against the Rams in Milwaukee.
Then Favre and Reggie White arrived, trust me, he did not do it on his own, he had plenty of good players around him.
I never spit on him, he could have played forever in GB if you asked me 3 years ago, but after that cryfest news conference when he had no intention of retiring was all I could take though. Not to mention all the crap about him finally being home playing for the queens last year was a little too much.
Yes, Rodgers was waiting in the wings, but in the NFL, here are no guarantees. One more concussion this year, and there would be no Super Bowl. With all the injuries, it is quite the feat to win the SB either way.
As I say when fishing, sometimes I would rather be lucky than good.
May my luck continue.
Live long and prosper…
> Honestly Tom, it probably just comes down to a matter of bias and personality.
So you might like him if he had the exact same football style but a different way of acting about it? Do you really think you can detect the “too much of a gunslinger” personality and just don’t like it? Or are there gunslingers you like (maybe in a different field) with a different set of personality characteristics from Favre?
W was reputed to be a gunslinger, as was Reagan. Don’t know if that’s true, or if that’s just a liberal fiction. If it’s true, I might like gunslingers in politics as well.
Drax,
Sounds like you are a gunslinger man. Got any examples from other fields?
Yours,
Tom
Reagan and W were only considered “gunslingers” by the hyper-pacifist left, who consider anyone who will stand up to dictators “gunslingers.” Neither Reagan nor W were “gunslingers” they were careful, thoughtful men who listened to their military experts and made decisions based on risk vs. reward that were mostly vindicated by history.
In that sense every QB in the game is a “gunslinger”.
My problem with Favre, Cutler and most of Elway’s career is that in my opinion they made bad decisions under pressure at key moments when they felt they had to win the game on their own.
Yes, they made lots of good decisions to be able to get to the big games they lost, but they lost more big games than they won. Even Elway who lost three Superbowls trusting his cannon arm, and won two trusting his game management and HOF caliber running back.
It’s no coincidence that Elway had his worst games in those first three Super Bowls. He was definitely dancing with the one whut brung him, but his luck ran out when he counted on it the most.
Tom Brady has the highest winning percentage of any QB who has played any significant time in the NFL. Brett Favre may hold all the longevity records, but Tom Brady holds records like the following:
Most home games won in a row.
Highest season TD to Int ratio in history (#1 and #2)
Highest winning percentage in history
Fewest starts to reach 100 wins
Most touchdowns per season
Most games with 6, 5, 4, 3, and 2 TDs with no interceptions.
Most games with 50 attempts and no interceptions.
Highest single game pass percentage in history
Funny how I don’t see Drew Bledsoe’s name on any of those lists… considering he played in the same “system.”
I don’t care what system you play in. That shows accuracy and game management skills that are off the charts.
CC: Apparently, you’re unaware that Billicheat didn’t start coaching there until 2000. You know…the year Bledsoe was sacked 45 times?
It was in his second year as coach that he put his stamp on things and had his system fully installed. Brady didn’t get sacked nearly so much. Quick, short passes instead of a running game.
And, yes. I agree that Brady is a great quarterback. I never said that he wasn’t. But, he ain’t Favre. He couldn’t do what Favre did – and, I’m sure that Favre couldn’t do what Brady does.
Brady has worked himself into being an all-time great. But, on a different team with a different scheme – likely different results (Ask Cassel…)
I have never been one to rank professional athletes individually, but into tiers. Brady is in the highest tier as is Favre. I recognize that any one of them could have had a short, forgettable career in a different city – with a different coach – with a different scheme – etc.
Would Emmitt Smith have gained all those yards had he been on the Lions? Would Sanders have gained another 10,000 yards had he been on the Cowboys?
Would Ryan Leaf have survived and achieved his potential under a different coach? Would Moss have lived down to his reputation without Carter to mentor him? Would Culpepper have achieved greatness had he and Moss stayed together?
So much of success in football is utterly out of the control of the player, so I just look at what they did with what they had, understanding that Favre didn’t win without White; Elway without Davis.
Brady is getting to be in a tier of his own. Who has he had on his side of the ball of HOF quality (other than Moss – no SB with Moss)? No one. (Well…maybe Wes Welker…if he keeps it up.)
But, then I see Cassel step in and the team is as good as the year before and the year after…not a step is lost…
With Cassel they didn’t make the playoffs in spite of an 11-5 record, and that was largely due to losing at home and to the Jets in the regular season, something Brady hasn’t done since 2006.
I don’t disagree that the system is part of the equation, but I do tend to see individual excellence even in team sports. The system may give the opportunity but the player still has to rise to the occasion.
Cassel may still end up surprising some people. His career isn’t over yet.
I agree that Cassel might end up being a solid NFL QB. That team seems to be on an uptick all around.
And, I agree that even in team sports individual excellence raises the level of play of the team as a whole (or can do so). Favre would be good on any team, but greatness can’t be achieved solo — gotta be some support somewhere (unless you’re Barry Sanders…)
Two years ago Favre wasn’t the “gunslinger.” Different team. Different scheme. Different circumstances. (The last pass…well, I’ve argued elsewhere that the pass had to be made regardless of success/failure – he had been placed in circumstances where he had to attempt to force a big play (through no fault of his own – 12 men on the field putting them out of FG range)
It didn’t work out. Earlier in the game, under similar circumstances, he had made a remarkably similar throw – but with different results.
But, we saw him on a team with a good defense, a great running game, a decent offensive line (until the end of the season when it was beat up and ended up getting Farve beaten up as well…) and he had his best (non “gunslinging”) season.
Drax,
I’m not a gunslinger when I play poker, but I do bluff sometimes – the high risk play. When you don’t have the cards you have to bluff more often, or you can’t win.
Yours,
Tom
That’s “all about me?”
- Yeah I consider it all about me when he bothered to let the teams know that he may find it within him to let them know if he’ll play
at somepoint in time of his choosing.
- while under contract. Unless his ego was sufficiently stroked. – and they upped the fee to 20 million.
- I think it’s funny that you consider him making the Jets a playoff contender. – He didn’t. He got injured and instead of being – oh I don’t know – a TEAMMATE, he would have pulled himself out of the games. Instead, despite some of his teammates asking him to do what’s right – he decided to be all about me.
And blame someone else later on.
You may call me deluded for thinking he won’t make it into the HOF first shot. I say he’s got as much chance of that as he did making the superbowl this year – ZERO. – like you thought he would.
Wanna bet again?
Sexual predators won’t make it into the HOF first round. Take that to the bank.
+++++++++++
(The best results, of course, only happened pre Spygate… the “system” seemed to be working a tad better before they got caught… excluding the one season they opened things up when Moss was out to prove to the world he was the best ever to play the game…)
That was prior to 07/08 season, in which Brady threw 50 TD’s, 08/09 season Brady was out. 09/10 season was average for Brady and in 10/11 he won NFL MVP.
Where exactly are you massaging your opinion from
Leave A Reply