I’ve been in lots of disputes and debates over the years about Islam, Islamism, Islamophobia and Islamic jihadism.
In every case I will be lectured by well-meaning libertarians and leftists who say that the world is simply bubbling over with calm, moderate Muslims who are lumped into the jihadist set by ignorant Islamophobes who believe only in a caricature of Islam.
So here is my challenge.
Let’s define “Moderate Muslim” in the same way that we would define “Moderate Christain.” In pure black and white terms let’s define a “Moderate” as one who does not demand that government itself should be a theocracy.
That’s more or less the definition of “secularism” and “secularism” has been the hallmark of “moderate” religionists for going on five hundred years. Secularism is the very foundation of the US concept of freedom of religion meaning that you are free to practice your religion, but you are not free to use the legal mechanisms of the state to enforce a state religion. At a more fundamental and important level, it means that government can be “of the people, by the people and for the people” with laws and customs being defined through democratic means.
When you look into the statements of “moderate” Muslims, however, you find no such acceptance of secularism. In fact you find it repudiated directly in favor of Sharia law, the theocratic rule of Muslim religious authorities operating under the iron heel of Koranic mandate.
So the next time I am in a debate on the subject, I am going to take the position that unless a Muslim “authority” on the subject is willing to accept secular rule coexistant with religious practice (which is the fundamental concept of “freedom” in the West), then the word “moderate” does not remotely mean what “moderate” means when applied to any other “authority” from any other religion. In that sense “moderate” when applied to a Muslim “authority” means “only slightly less extremist and theocratic than the average Muslim”.
11 users commented in " Find me the “moderate” Muslim “scholar” who accepts secularism "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackWhen Islam will allow a non-believer to tread the ground at Mecca or Medina, then, I’ll consent to the possibility that there exists a “moderate” Muslim.
Not until then.
What about holy places in other religions?
So far as I know, I can roam around Rome. I can bounce across Bethlehem. I can slide across Salt Lake City. I don’t know of another religion that literally makes entire cities off limits to non-believers.
mtn, are you aware of other examples of entire cities being off limits due to lack of religious faith?
But that’s Drax’s view, my view is simply that unless a Muslim apologist is willing to grant the concept of secular rule as being a pre-requisite for freedom, and supports freedom as a concept, then I’m not going to grant them the title “moderate” in any sense other than they may be somewhat less extreme than their most extreme brethren.
I’m a bit easier. All they have to do for me is not make it a fundamental precept of their religion that anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their faith is unclean.
That’d be a decent start.
No, not entire cities, unless the Vatican is off limits to non-believers.
Other religions have sacred compounds or buildings but not cities.
I think most people would say it’s reasonable to have a sacred temple or even a compound, but a whole friggin city? TWO whole friggin cities?
I’m not even sure than any other major religion has any “sacred temple” or “compound” which is entirely off-limits to any not “of the faith” BECAUSE, being not “of the faith” their presence in any off-limits area would POLLUTE that area. There are areas which are off-limits to everyone but the caretakers (including those OF “the faith”).
Maybe libraries, museums, places where sacred relics are stored? But, again, those are going to be off-limits to the vast bulk of those “of the faith” and the reason isn’t because those not “of the faith” would corrupt the sites, but one of preservation and care-taking.
My understanding is that the Mormans have such a place. There may be places like this in the Hindu or Bhuddist religions.
Is a city that much different than a building or compound? It seems just a matter of scale.
Scale is important. It’s just a matter of scale to say that a temple is sacred vs. a planet is sacred.
I haven’t done any analysis but I would suspect that most religions have a “holy of holies” place that is usually inside a temple, the temple itself, or a compound that is made up of several buildings, where non-believers are not allowed. This is not just a religious thing, btw, many organizations have exactly the same thing. It’s a pretty strong urge in human groups to set aside privileged places only the favored can enter.
But I am not aware of anything like an entire city being treated this way by anything but Islam.
Again. In those areas, even the vast bulk of those “of the faith” are not allowed. It is a matter of safe-keeping and care-taking. In Mecca and Medina, all those “of the faith” are allowed, even REQUIRED to walk those streets, while any not of the faith are not allowed — not due to any sacred relics, any safe-keeping, any care-taking — but because any not of the faith are UNCLEAN.
If this distinction is lost on anyone, I really can’t help that. It’s self-inflicted.
Well, geez, we should take more showers I guess.
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