Well, he did it. Eight Olympic gold medals in 8 events. Seven world records. Count me among those who believe this is the greatest achievement in modern Olympic history. Greater than Mark Spitz. Greater than Eric Heiden. Greater than Jessie Owens. This achievement deserves all the hype it is getting not only because it has never been equalled, but because it will increase the value of the Michael Phelps autograph I currently have in my possession. And speaking of autographs, I also have the autographs of Aaron Piersol and Brendan Hansen who swam the back and breaststroke legs respectively in that final 400 medley relay that made history.
I’m taking offers… 
A couple thoughts on Phelp’s great gold medal haul of these China Olympics: He got lucky. Or was it destiny? Without an out-of-his-mind swim by Jason Lezak in the 400 free relay and an utterly improbable finish in the 100m butterfly, Phelps would have won 6 gold and 2 silver medals. Still great and still historic by virtually any standard. But let’s be honest; if that had happened everyone (including Phelps) would have been disappointed and Phelp’s claim to swimming supremacy would have been tainted. Now, this would have been completely unfair because Phelps is clearly the greatest swimmer the world has ever seen, but I have no doubt a capricious media and public would have obsessed over the 2 golds that got away and cast his otherworldly performance in the pool this past week as some kind of disappointment.
I’m so glad that didn’t happen…
26 users commented in " The Great Haul of China… "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackDadman: I’ll give you everything in Cosmic’s wallet for the Phelps, Hansen, and Piersol’s autographs.
I think Phelps wasn’t lucky at all. Sure, he needed help from Lizak, and his other mates in the relays. But I know for sure that his superior performances over the years have made all of his mates better. And their “betterness”…I know that’s not a word…helped Phelps nail down all that gold.
One of the great truths in life is that “good competition makes everyone better.” Good for them all!
I wondered before the last race if Phelps’ teammates would just kinda hold back, not try hard, etc…in order to deprive him of the gold out of jealousy (I have a suspicious nature).
But then I realized that they are all competitors. They wanted their gold medal just as much as Phelps…maybe even more.
His teammates won’t be remembered like Phelps will be. But they will have that Olympic medal. They will tell their grandkids how it all came down.
Phelps is tough…the greatest Olympian of all time. But I’ll bet you that I can beat him in a pancake eating contest.
I think Phelps is among the greatest athletes in history. But to call him the “greatest Olympian ever” is truly arguable for a lot of reasons.
First of all, Spitz won seven golds in seven tries and all seven were world records. Phelps won eight golds in eight tries and set seven world records. Could Spitz have won another event in less than world-record time? Possibly. I can’t see a lot of difference in the two performances, frankly.
However, the argument that Phelps is more dominant than Spitz because of his performance in TWO Olympics is certainly a powerful argument. Spitz was good in ’68, but not overwhelming. Phelps has been dominant in ’04 and ’08.
But how does that compare to, say, an Edwin Moses who won every match he raced in for over a decade? Or a Cassius Clay who only has one shot at one gold medal in his entire career? Or a Nadia Comaneci who achieved the impossible?
It’s too hard to decide. I prefer to think there are plateaus of performance and at the very top plateau, there you find the Michael Phelps, Mark Spitz, Jesse Owens and Nadia Comaneci’s of the world. They are “the best” because there is no one better, but that doesn’t mean that one of them has to be better than the rest. In my mind they are all peers.
We’ll see. Phelps is already the most decorated athlete in the history of the world and he isn’t finished collecting titles, and not just Olympic titles. Keep in mind that Phelps had been winning races, setting world records, and claiming world titles every year between the two Olympics he’s competed in thus far. Nope, I have no problem calling him the greatest Olympian of all time.
Andy: Phelps was lucky to win the 100m butterfly. Both he and Cavic botched their finishes. Phelps took a half stroke into the wall while Cavic chose to glide in. Both approaches will cause a swimmer to lose a race as often as win one. Had Cavic’s glide been 3 inches shorter or Phelp’s lunge at the wall 3 inches longer Phelps would have lost. Of course, Phelps out swam Cavic the last 10 meters or so (after being out-swum the first 90 meters) putting himself in a position to win. Lucky? Maybe. But, I’m willing to concede that in the case of Phelps, in this Olympiad, destiny seemed to be in full control…
This is why they should measure victory by the athlete’s center of mass, not their reach.
Huh?
It’s all about center of mass. The whole point of running, swimming, jumping, whatever, is all about the athlete moving in a particular direction at a particular speed.
The only FAIR way to measure speed, motion, distance, whatever, is to measure by center of mass. That way a person with longer arms doesn’t have an unfair advantage, or a horse with a longer neck can’t lean to the finish line ahead of a faster horse.
How far you actually move is determined by where your center of mass is, not by how far your middle finger can reach.
So measure by center of mass, and then the race will be decided fairly, not by the arbitrary circumstance of where a swimmer’s hands and arms happen to be based on their current stroke. If my center of mass is ahead of yours at the finish line, it doesn’t matter if my arms are currently completing a stroke and are behind my hips, while your arms are reaching forward because you just happen to be at that point in your stroke at the moment.
Center of mass. It’s foolproof.
I think I prefer the status quo. Starts, finishes, underwater technique, absurdly long arms, etc. are all variables that make sport more interesting and exciting…
Heh, I’ve gotten to where nobody can tell when I’m kidding….
I actually think there’s some validity to my suggestion, but I also think that the technique and excitement of the current means of determining winners does add to the sport. So I’m not seriously suggesting that we change it, but I do think that at some point in the future you will see what I am proposing taken seriously.
Cosmic: I knew you were kidding. The stopwatch doesn’t discriminate…and “winning” technique IS specific to one’s body mass.
I’ve seen unlikely “body types” win many competitions. I’ve seen short, heavy-looking dudes win marathons, and tall stick-men do the same…dang, did you see that Bolt guy from Jamaica sprint the 100 meters????? ….frightening!!!!!
Technique (and genetics) are paramount to become a champion Dadman. Of course, you are talking about swimming. You know way more about the sport than I do. I’m just wondering if they give a medal for “effort?” Maybe a copper medal for a “rock-man” like me?
I remember once reading the words of the great distance runner from New Zealand, John Campbell. He said (paraphrasing, because I don’t have the book now)…”If one will be an Olympic champion, they must choose their parents very carefully.”
Andy: Not sure where you are trying to take this thread. Of course technique, genetics, work ethic, desire, and a whole host of other intangibles make a champion. What I am suggesting is that Phelps was the receipient of (take your pick) a little luck, providence, divine intervention, good fortune, positive kharma, or perhaps an immutable dose of destiny when he won the gold in the 100m butterfly.
Dadman: Not trying to take the thread anywhere…just random thoughts (trying to escape for a while from…well…you don’t want to know).
I think that “hard work” is probably Phelps’ greatest attribute. I was just hoping for a “copper medal” for effort. (sigh)
I know that I just deserve a “tin can.”
I would go for “best racer in history,” and “best swimmer in history,” but not “best Olympian in history.”
It could be argued that his efforts LAST Olympics equalled Spitz, if not bettered him. (There, he didn’t have the help in one or two relay races and didn’t get gold.)
But, I think that he has to do close to this at least once more to get into the level of greatest Olympians.
He is of a sport in which he CAN win several medals — all of which requiring (or at least making best use of) the same body type.
What of those who dominated their sports for 4 or 5 Olympics in a row? Can’t forget Greg Louganis can we? He won all he could in two Olympics and would have won in three (’80 Boycott)….Can’t forget Paavo Nurmi, can we? He won two long distance races with only 36 minutes separating them. He would have won more, but, that was in the day where only amateurs could compete and he took money and couldn’t compete (although continued to dominate the sport). Can’t forget Larysa Latynina either, winning medals across three Olympics in GYMNASTICS. Had she been able to compete in EIGHT per cycle, then she would have won more… Carl Lewis winning medals in track and field across FOUR Olympics…
Some particapte in events in which they can only get ONE medal every four years. Can’t forget Teofilo Stevenson or Felix Savon who won three golds in a row in the boxing heavyweight division. Edwin Moses won two and would have won three had we not boycotted the ’80 Olympics.
There are SO many who have duplicated/exceeded what Phelps has done (dominated his sport for two Olympics) that I can’t give him “best Olympian” yet.
“Most decorated?” Sure. “Best swimmer?” I’ll give him that (Spitz does as well.) “Best racer?” I’d have to give him that as well.
Best Olympian? Nah.
That’s Jesse Owens.
Drax: Phelps has won 14 gold medals in only 2 Olympics – more than any other human, even those who competed in more Olympiads than Phelps has to date. Jessie Owens was a great Olympian not so much because he won 4 gold medals in 1936, but because he beat racist, Aryan monsters in the process.
Sans the politics, personalities, tales of woe, etc. Phelps is clearly the best Olympian in my book based purely on athletic achievement.
And he’ll be back in 2012…
Just want to point out that Phelps will swim in 7 events – 4 individual and 3 relays – in London. If he wins gold in all events that will bring his Olympic gold total to 21 which will make him the most decorated Olympian of all time.
Really looking forward to it…
Well, he lost out to his countryman in at least one event… so I doubt he’ll win seven more gold medals.
BTW, this is called “thread necroing”… just so you know…
Yep, that countryman would be perhaps the second best swimmer in the world this year, Ryan Lochte. It will be very interesting watching Phelps and Lochte go at it in London.
Never heard of ‘thread necroing’ but I assume it means resurrecting a old thread from the dead…or something like that. I’ll just call it convenient…
Heh…so I googled ‘thread necroing’ and apparently it’s considered bad blog/forum etiquette (as I’m sure you knew).
Pfffpppthh. I couldn’t care less.
It’s considered bad etiquette by SOME bloggers/forums. Not all. I actually enjoy it. In some of the forums I frequent I defend thread necroing all the time. Most popular forums always have new people and a necro’d thread can sometimes not only provide an answer for a subject, it can also be historically relevant, which can really be interesting.
Interesting indeed. And this thread continues to be both interesting and relevant.
I lost a lot of respect for Phelps after the phelps-hitting-a-bong episode.
Well, I wouldn’t say “a lot” I guess… I guess I’d say “pretty much all.”
But then, I’m a judgmental jerk I guess.
I was not happy with Phelps and thought his initial response was flippant and irresponsible, but his eventual approach and response was appropriate and he has managed to avoid repeating the mistake.
I’m inclined to give him a bit of a break on this.
His eventual approach, I suspect, was what he was coached to do after it became clear he was a doobie…
Er, ok, I confess… what was the eventual approach?
He apologized to his fans, admitted to “bad judgment” and called the incident “regrettable”.
True, this was after Kellogg’s dropped him as a spokesperson… but he has not had another incident that I know of, so I believe he was sincere.
…or more careful about being caught…
The amount of time, energy, and personal sacrifice required of an individual to compete at the level Phelps has for a very long time now is mind-boggling. Swimming, eating and sleeping is about all world-class swimmers have time for.
As I understand it, Phelps stepped away from that all-consuming lifestyle for a time after the Beijing Games and probably did more than a few things he now regrets, including not training for a year or so. His loss of focus and commitment to swimming nearly cost him his chance to compete in these games, but, alas, he appears to be back to his old form and poised to haul in a few more gold medals in London. A less naturally gifted swimmer might have been derailed by the loss of competitive fire that Phelps experienced after Beijing.
All of this is to say that I’m inclined, like Cosmic, to give the guy a pass for his youthful indiscretions.
An inauspicious start to his 2012 campaign I’m afraid….
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