A cautionary tale…
So there is this local website that has grown up along the US 285 corridor called “Pinecam.” It was originally set up as a webcam by a guy named Wayne Harrison (I think). He put the webcam up with some content like the temperature and local fire warnings, along with some basic messaging capability.
Well, one year the fires in the mountains were out of control and Pinecam became a really great resource for keeping track of where the fires were and what the authorities wanted citizens to do and lots of other very valuable community services. Wayne became something of a local celebrity and was regarded as a local hero.
As a result his traffic jumped. In fact it jumped so much that he set up more sophisticated messaging software and pretty soon had a very vibrant little online community going. Over time it’s original purpose has become overshadowed by its message board functions and it became a sort of local virtual gathering place.
I joined, as did most local folks with computers, and eventually I began posting in the message boards, particularly in an area called “The Study” that was supposedly a “no-holds barred” message area to discuss politics and religion and other controversial subjects. For a couple of years I was a pretty heavy poster there, in fact that was in large part what led me to set up this blog. Because the site was overrun with moonbat liberals. Most of the moderators had classic Bush Derangement signature lines like “Bush Lied and People Died.”
Of course I couldn’t allow such things to go unchallenged, so I sought out Mr. Harrison himself and we had a long private message conversation about how ethical it was to call people “moderators” who not only used their position to attack their political opponents and to inflame the debate, but actually used their power to actively censor opinions on the other side. Over time he and I managed to agree and disagree on many subjects, but overall I think my intervention did actually have a positive effect when Wayne decided that I was right about overt political statements and overt political censorship being something the moderators were not allowed to do. More than a few moderators resigned over this, by the way, and I made some life-long enemies. But those are the kind of enemies I appreciate having, frankly.
Anyway it is probably something of an understatement to say that I developed a reputation on Pinecam as being one of the few conservative voices who could debate against a dozen liberals and win more often than not. I even developed a bit of a fan club.
But as I said, I started this blog, and I decided that Pinecam was never going to change from what is basically a highly moonbat infested website whose moderators routinely abuse their power to force their point of view on the reading public. So I more or less stopped going there.
But I visited it and on occasion I would post a message. Even though it’s been three years at least since I was an active poster there, my reputation with the long-term members and moderators has never really changed. And I have made it a point to identify those times when I think the moderators are abusing their power and have continued to post messages that the liberals on the board in particular find difficult to accept. I have been threatened several times with banning.
Well tonight I got banned. And here is why. It’s really downright funny, if it wasn’t so pathetic.
Someone posted a message about a dead cat on highway 285. A few people responded with the suggestion that cat owners should make sure their cats are inside the house for their own safety. Well, a few months ago there was a very hot thread about cat owners letting their cats roam free in the neighborhood and I had posted my opinion of owners of cats who allow their cats to roam free to annoy and harass their neighbors. In effect I told them that doing so was an act of supreme selfishness because their cats don’t care whose window they are under when they appease their feline urges at 3:00 in the morning. Of course this angered a lot of selfish cat owners who routinely let their cats wander the neighborhood. Some of whom were moderators.
Well when this post came up and people were suggesting that cats stay inside to not get run over, I pointed out that I had made exactly the same suggestion but was attacked by the “in crowd” as being unfair to cat owners. But now that one was dead, my suggestion suddenly made a lot of sense.
Well, this angered a dude named “Lazierfan” who responded with a lame message about “feral cats” and “ranch cats” as if either were relevant. He ended his message with a sarcastic comment about how he was in awe of my ability to distinguish house cats from feral cats. So I responded to him saying that I appreciated his great admiration of my visual skills, but that it wasn’t really that hard to spot a collar and tag on a cat under my window with a flashlight at 4:00 in the morning, and the last time I checked, feral cats didn’t wear collars.
Well this set him off and he began instant messaging me about how I was being “insensitive” in a “mourning post.” So we traded a few barbs back and forth privately and he threatened to report me to the moderators, to which I said: “Knock yourself out.” He came back with a sneering post telling me that the moderators had deleted my comments since they were not appropriate to a “mourning post.” To which I responded that he and the moderators were seriously trivializing true mourning if they were calling a post about a road killed cat that nobody claimed ownership of a “mourning post.” I told him that he and the moderators were in serious need of some basic human perspective.
So they banned me. Just like that.
So, what do you think, is that appropriate? Did I deserve to be banned?
I have to say that I don’t care much one way or the other, the site has devolved into a little moonbat Peyton Place of rumor, innuendo, gossip and solidarity among the liberal clique that has always run the place. And of course that’s why they really banned me is because I tend to point out their actions when they fall into those habits, and they don’t like being called out on it. But what do you think?
82 users commented in " How I got banned from Pinecam "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackPut simply, they are morons.
I agree with the moderators. From your description, you clearly don’t fit in there, and they’re tired of eating their cornflakes floating in your urine.
This kinda reminds me of that old Groucho Marx line about not wanting to belong to any club that would have him as a member.
Ideologically, I agree with you. But ultimately it’s their party and you’re the unwanted guest.
Heh, it’s one of those “how long are you going to beat your head against that brick wall” sorts of things I suppose. I’m still amazed at the trivial excuse they finally used to pull the trigger though. A dead anonymous cat? It’s probably worth pointing out that I was not the only member of Pinecam to use the opportunity to remind people of the need to keep their cats inside, but I was the only one banned.
We need a Peyton Place around here. Where are all the sexy girls?
As to be expected, you completely missed the reason you were banned. It had nothing whatsoever to do with your politics, but you, as a poor abused neocon, assume that the “libs” are, once again, out to get you.
Perhaps you should also make it clear that you were not “banned” (although that rhetoric certainly sounds better in making you pity case), but merely “suspended” for thirty days.
That is pretty weak that you got banned for such a simple argument…..and I agree with you 100% on your argument. Being a dog owner I don’t let my dog wander off into my neighbors backyards. If I did I am sure my neighbors would rightfully complain. It is sad that cat owners think it is OK to let their pets wander, play and crap in your yard….it is just plain irresponsible.
Before I had my dog, my neighbors cats used to be in my backyard all the time which drove me nuts. But then one night a raccoon, skunk or other predator got in a fight with one of the cats and it died in my backyard. I was hosting a party that next day and got to wake up to the pleasant surprise of a dead feline in my backyard. Of course I felt horrible going over to tell them the news but I also was upset because I had to clean it up and deal with all of it.
So “notalib” I am assuming you are in some way associated with the moderators at Pinecam. Just so you know the only “communication” I got about being “banned” was a snarky, rude message from “Lazierfan” saying “You are banned, effective tomorrow.” Nothing else. No “suspended for 30 days” no “and here is why.”
Since the only posts I posted on Pinecam on this thread have been accurately reflected here, I can only assume that you are suggesting that I am being “suspended for 30 days” because of private messages I sent back and forth with the aforementioned Pinecam member. If that is the case I can only assume that you are suggesting that my private messages were somehow more rude and offensive than his, a suggestion I find absolutely hilarious since he and I traded private messages that I think were more or less equally snarky.
So it boils down to this. Either you and the moderator team decided to “suspend” me (without formal notice, I might add) for a mutually rude private exchange with another member who was NOT banned, or you found something in my private messages that offended YOU more than his messages did.
And the only thing I can think of that would cause such a reaction was my direct comments about the MODERATORS of Pinecam, such as my assertion that the moderators were displaying a remarkable lack of human perspective in asserting that a post about an unclaimed road-kill cat somehow rose to the level of a “mourning post” which I assume is usually reserved for the death of a known human being, or at least an acknowledged beloved pet. A road-kill cat does not merit that level of emotional investment IN MY OPINION.
If that is the case, then it appears to me that the moderators essentially took an opportunity to exact revenge upon me for criticizing them. Which is exactly what I think DID happen. And is exactly in line with the accusations I’ve made about the general immature behavior of said moderators over the years I’ve been on Pinecam. I don’t claim that my private IMs with Lazierfan were models of maturity, but I am NOT A MODERATOR, so I have no obligation to act mature, especially in reaction to comments that I found to be insulting sent to me. I tend to respond in kind in such situations.
What you think happened is not accurate. Unfortunately, your logic is flawed.
Right back atcha notalib. You can assert what you like. I was there.
As was I.
Heh… makes me wonder who “you” are.
He said, she said… blah blah blah.
The only significant thing I can think of that I left out is when I told LF that the moderators were acting as “fascist free speech crushers” for deleting my comments on the dead cat thread. To which he responded with a lecture about Pinecam not being a government institution and therefore not being held to free speech laws. Which I concede, but I find it amazing that their argument was “we do it because we can. Ha ha.”
Actually I’m glad to hear that I’ve “only” been suspended. I’m pretty much done with this topic now anyway, I just thought you all might get a kick out of some of my extra-curricular activities.
I don’t pretend that I was, as notalib asserts, some poor abused “neocon” (I do find it interesting that someone who calls himself “notalib” uses “neocon” as an insult…) I completely admit that in my private messages with LF I was snippy, sarcastic and rude. My explanation is that I typically respond that way when someone begins an exchange with me in a sarcastic and insulting manner as I felt LF had with his “I am in awe of your awesome skills” comment which was NOT private, by the way. But that doesn’t really excuse such behavior.
In fact I really should do some soul-searching about why I am such a curmudgeon on Pinecam. Most of my grievances with the moderators on the site go back years, and many of the current moderators are not the same ones. And it is somewhat unfair of me to assert that the site is still just as heavily lib-biased as it used to be. I hardly ever go to “The Study” anymore, so I shouldn’t make that sort of assertion.
I concede that I need to “get over” my issues with people who owned and moderated the site years ago, most of whom no longer are active in the daily management of Pinecam.
It’s interesting how much baggage I carry on some subjects. And how it affects my behavior for a long time. Perhaps some serious introspection is in order.
You have begun to understand the issue, and I applaud your introspection. Too many times on that site simple personal interchange is infused with political undertones that may not be there. There was nothing political about your suspension, simply objection to your postings and personal exchanges.
I did not intend the term “neocon” to be insulting. I (apparently mistakenly) thought that was how you referred to your own political leanings. I apopolgize if it was taken as an insult.
To clarify my own persuasion, perhaps my name should be “notaliborcon” since I am truly a political agnostic and disdain both major parties equally.
Pinecam has a demonstrable history of heavy-handed moderation. Speaking as the owner/administrator of a similarly sized forum, in my experience an intrusive forum moderation culture usually does more harm than good. They have clearly struggled with their scope as moderators, and haven’t been able to establish a happy medium. IMHO.
It is disappointing that they banned you for this PM exchange, but not especially surprising.
As stated, it was postings and PMs.
Well, the only postings and PMs I made during that period were the ones I described, so I still stand by most of my analysis. I would be more convinced if you had similarly dealt with LF due to his postings and PMs, but I am certain you did not, so your assertions are materially undercut by the unfairness of the application of your rules.
Still, I do admit that I have baggage with PineCam and I am introspecting. But I also concur with Pace that the moderators on Pinecam, whether politically motivated or not, are absurdly overreactive to postings on the board, and I and pace are not the only ones who believe so. It has become so prevalent that it is a sort of running joke, one that came up today in a wholly unrelated thread where a poster asked a fairly bland question and was warned by another poster of “what happens to people” who rock the boat.
notalib, believe me when I tell you that I am NOT the only one who should be doing some serious introspection. Not by any means.
One other point, notalib, I know a whole lot of conservatives and there aren’t many, in fact I can not name a single one, who considers “neocon” to be a description of their views, or a compliment. In my experience “neocon” is used almost universally as an insult, both by liberals and by more moderate (such as I) conservatives.
In case you are wondering, my politics are very much centrist conservative. I “break” with Republican stereotypes in more ways than I “adhere” to them. First and foremost is that I am firmly agnostic. My conservatism is based on a rational analysis of history and circumstances. I have reached my political leanings through observation of what works, not what some people think SHOULD work. My personal description of my political ideology is “rational conservatism.”
Anyone who has ever read any significant amount of my opinions on subjects who concludes that I am a “neocon” would almost certainly have to be a liberal. Because no conservative would think so, and neither would a moderate.
Thank you for the clarification. I am honestly and admittedly (and intentionally) ignorant on the differentiations between political ideologies.
So, since you ignored my comments on these subjects, I’ll repeat them.
1. Does the fact that multiple people suggest that your moderation techniques are faulty lead you to the same sort of introspection you so condescendingly “congratulate” me for undertaking?
2. Did you also suspend LF’s account since his posts and PMs were materially the same as mine in tone and content, minus the direct criticisms of your moderator team? I am assuming that you haven’t and that the fundamental reason why not is that you feel no need to retaliate against HIM since he only attacked ME.
Heh, I should have titled this post “beating a dead cat”.
Up to this point I have been posting here only as an individual, not in any “official” capacity. The pinecam moderator team is comprised of many volunteers representing multiple ideologies and demographics. Moderators do not act unilaterally, but instead operate by consensus. This is not the proper venue, nor is it my place, or within my authority, to discuss these topics with you individually. I encourage you to address your concerns to the moderator team at mods@pinecam.com.
Look what they posted in a sticky at the top of the Study forum. Look like you rattled some people.
==================================================
The Study, in general, has not been going in a good direction.
The description of the Study is:
Discuss politics, religion and other sensitive subjects. All viewpoints are welcome here. The Pinecam TOS is in effect in this forum; however, these discussions are not for the faint of heart. All opinions expressed in this forum are solely those of the author and do not represent the views and/or opinions of Pinecam.com.
The Terms of Service are:
“…You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws or deemed to be disruptive to the general membership of the forums…”
Lately there have been abusive posts, obscene and vulgar posts. Hateful posts, and allusions to all of the above. Some of you seem determined to push the envelope and also challenge the authority of the Moderators in public and in PM’s and email.
What you fail to realize is that whatever is posted in the Study can be seen by all members of any age, and still needs to be appropriate. It is not a free for all just because it is posted in the Study.
Strong debates have fallen to personal attacks, and many threads have been locked or deleted. This type of posting will not be tolerated and we (the moderators) are forced to become firmer.
This is not up for debate and any threads started about our policy will be immediately deleted.
Thank You,
Pinecam Study Mods
Why are the moderators of Pinecam reading other peoples’ Private Messages? What do PMs have to do with the forum they are moderating? Have the owners of the Pinecam site made it clear that the “private” messages are actually very public?
That is a totally erroneous assumption.
Any admin on any web site can read PM’s – they are all stored in a DB that you can open and export to as text.
Pinecam had a history in this area. Maybe not the current admins, but they can read them if they want.
If the mod’s had voted to ban you it would have take hours or a day to get them together to vote. Sounds like LF used his powers to pull the trigger by himself or with the support of a single clan pal.
Pinecam is like high school.
26 comments…It’s a roadkill cat! Down here we pick ‘em up for dog treats…not a real “mourning event.”
Pinecam sucks!
I wasn’t in The Study.
I also do not for one second believe that my posts or even my private messages ran afoul of even a strict interpretation of those terms of service. In my opinion this reaction of suspending my account is not only vastly overblown, but it has been unfairly applied. LF was the first one to drop into personal attacks with his sarcastic and insulting comments about me, I was responding to him. And I responded to him PRIVATELY, when he made his comments PUBLICLY.
Since LF ran to the moderators so quickly, I assume that he has a close relationship to those moderators and that relationship had a lot to do with how my comments were interpreted compared to how his were, and why my account was suspended when his was not.
My final word. Based on how notalib simply has to have the last word on everything, I am pretty sure that I know who he is.
Al Franken?
Heh. This has probably been a lot of “fun” to read through.
Notice, however, that I do not delete notalib’s comments even when they are critical of me.
Ed:
I’m pretty sure that in this case the private messages were forwarded to the moderators without my knowledge. Which isn’t a big deal, I would expect to be able to do that if the exchange was sufficiently alarming, which I don’t believe this exchange was. The private messages between me and LF were pretty sophomoric and snarky, but not threatening or abusive, or at least not any more in one direction than the other. I think I know why LF “ran” to the moderators, and why they reacted so favorably to his version of events. But this has gone on long enough. I have no desire to follow notalib’s advice and go to the moderators, they have clearly already chosen sides and have thrown their lot in with one of their own.
So ENUFF ALREADY!!!
That “Lazierfan†guy sucks.
Lol.
CC: The reason you were banned has nothing to do with your PM’s or the subject of the thread (dead cat…keep ‘em inside you dolts). It was simply that you cast aspersions on the moderators.
The pertinent part of that new message posted by mtnlurker is: ” also challenge the authority of the Moderators in public and in PM’s and email.”
Really….that’s it. There ain’t any more to it.
Hey, my cat is missing…
I never challenged their authority. Not a single time. I simply said they abused it and acted as fascists. That’s not challenging their authority, in fact it is acknowledging that they have it and that they routinely abuse it.
He cast aspersions on the moderators? Dude, this is the internet. If you don’t have a thick skin, you’re going to get eaten alive.
I was reading on a local site about the recent downfall of my former site. I’m saddened to know that the banning of members have become so petty.
Yes, admins can read PM’s. I had this ability on my former and current site. Years ago, I was accused by Susan (Gringa) of reading her post. We have patched up our differences and moved on.
It is nice to know you have alternative sites to post upon.
Ed: I agree. The moderators over there clearly have thin skin when challenged…especially if it is by someone who thinks contrary to them…or, rather, “thinks” in the normal sense of the word.
Wayne, thanks for stopping by. Haven’t talked to you in a while. I am sorry that it has to be on the occasion of my getting “banned” from the site that you created.
As you probably know I more or less dropped out of Pinecam discussions a few years ago, in large part because I created this site.
I really am bemused by the moderators suspending me for an entire month for the exchange I had with LF. It was really a pretty nothing exchange, especially compared with the knock-down drag-outs that we used to have on The Study. I would have been permanently banned long ago by this group had they been running it back then.
I will go back to my lurking because I really do appreciate the good aspects of Pinecam. Or I may just post a lame politically correct post from time to time. It’s not worth the mess it generates to get under these moderators’ skins.
I have to give your old team credit, even though we went at it hammer and tongs over what I perceived to be their overt political biases, they never suspended my account and I was pretty hard on them. I guess we have to learn to appreciate what we have, eh?
Hope you are doing well Wayne, and thanks again for the work you did to create PineCam. I have had a lot of good fun there over the years. And maybe the pendulum will swing again and it will be fun again. But right now it’s not fun at all.
- PaperDragon, also known as “Cosmic Conservative.”
I prefer to think of my banning as escaping.
Funny thing is they don’t get the break you part of this you tube and let me keep it in my sig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs&feature=related
Pinecam is a kindergarten for liberal moppets with one hand up their noses and the other down the mods pants.
Don’t worry about wayne! I killed wayne last week one punch him.
Hey paperdragon….you are in outstanding company. Some of the finest people I know have been banned from Pinecam. hahahahahahaha
Why even put any time worrying about Pinecam. The place is a joke, mostly populated with self absorbed have no lifes. Not even worth a moments thought. I sometimes look at the weather forecast on teh front page, occasionally look at a forum or two and leave shaking my head about the number of people who have nothing going on in life or are there to put down others. A sad place to be avoided.
Here’s an interesting tidbit. If you google “pincecam” Cosmic’s “How I got banned from pinecam” is actually quite high up on the list of results
Why, I think I may just add a link to here in the “criticisms” section of pinecam’s wikipedia page
Unless there are objections….
Heh, go for it.
You’re lucky I made the mistake of posting from work, so “Lezafairy” thought it would be cute to put a bug in my system at work so every time I went to the HOME page of Pinecam, (without being logged in) a porn site would “pop-up”.
Nice folks over there, they have NO problem going after your livelihood, to get ya fired.
They’ve done it to others, and part of my conditions of returning, were…
From cos, (doesn’t mean he wrote it)… “Any more complaints to the moderators about other posters will not be tolerated if we get another spat of them your ISP provider will be notified about the abuse.â€
I had sent violations of “tos†to mods, and they didn’t like it.
O sorry, cosmiccowboy.
Not ComsicConservative.
tpp:
I hear ya…. I’ve long ago decided that there are better things for me to spend my time on than trying to figure out why Pinecam has turned into such a pathetic kindergarten playground. It’s their site, they can run it how they please. I almost never go there anymore.
Heh. Peyton Place in the pines…
More like Peewee’s Playhouse.
hey there – hi all
I’m sad to report that I too have somehow managed to tick off the powers that be. I found Pinecam useful before I moved up from Littleton. Anywho, I started my Rt285.com site because I’m a news junkie, a developer learning about Joomla so why not give people something useful as I learn, love the area etc etc. My motivation was never and still isn’t competition to pinecam at all. Truthfully while this sounds insulting it isn’t meant to, but pinecam uses very dated technology. Sure their forums are loaded with content and thats more than half the challenge of a good useful site but I never intended to compete with them, as a matter of fact I had hope to work together. Seems thats my mistake. There was a brief fire, Burland – and it was visible from my place so I popped up a LIVE cam on my site and posted about it on pinecam. They left the link at first, but when I posted a follow up they informed my that it was deleted because it was a duplicate. It wasn’t, I had changed location of the LIVE cam on the site since the fire was under control going out and didn’t need to be on my front page. That started a process of them moving my general postings into more and more obscure areas. I was told that they did that because my postings had so many topics they didnt know where to put me. And then – in all honesty and with a genuine desire to help, I asked if I could assist them in anyway to help better pinecam. That eventually they’ll need to update the site and it’ll be a big task. I was sensitive to not sound like a know it all. I’m always humble about what I do because there are always people better than you and know alot more than you do when it comes to technology especially. Well I believe it was taken completely wrong. I am NOT banned but I certainly don’t feel the love. Hey, I can understand they may feel threatened. I also believe that what I do at rt285.com and what they do are entirely different things. I also believe that competition is good. If the true goal is to provide the people of this area with an informative web site and the competition is done without personal attacks or unethical techniques then it’s healthy. I guess what I feel about this is let down. I came to this community appreciating what Pinecam was doing and now I keep finding out more and more stuff that taints the whole thing. I can only hope that clear heads reorganize whats what there. I’m sure when this is read, I will have sealed my fate. That’s sad. I started what I started to work with everyone – the area as well as other sites. Foolish on my part, I had hoped my olive branch offers would be accepted as genuine. Anyway, Shameless plug if I may, if you feel disenfranchised with pinecam you are certainly welcomed over at rt285.com – I don’t censor opinions. I value intelligent debate and appreciate suggestions and constructive comments. I run the site when I can, I’m sick and have been for sometime. Otherwise my wife tweaks the site for me. So I always need a hand. Moderators or whatnot. Also – sorry for the epic posting. Feel free to visit my site and fill up mine with babble like I did.
Take care all.
Maxi:
I wouldn’t worry about anyone from Pinecam reading your comment, I doubt many people are reading this at all anymore, and those that do are probably not Pinecam mods, most of whom would not find this blog amenable to their ideology.
I got banned from PineKlan for telling the grandmother of liberalism after her daily Bush hate rants to ride back to whereever on the “jack-ass” that she rode in on.
The double handles of the moderators is a funny to say the least. I had some friends in Austin to post on the overmod thread. Today they are beachbirds and later today they are barney fife. It’s like Sheriff Andy Taylor gossiping around Mayberry and then punishing Opee for doing the same thing.
“CruelaDeV,
The Moderator Team has decided to impose a 30 day suspension of your account. This is due to continued violations of the Pinecam Terms of Service and includes, but is not limited to, the following:
*Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated.
*flaming or baiting
*deemed to be disruptive to the general membership of the forums.
This suspension is immediate, and no emails will be answered regarding this suspension.
After 30 days your account will be activated and you are welcome to come back if you so choose.
Pinecam Moderator Team”
Now the OTHER side of the story…when pressed the “FRAUD MOD SQUAD” of Pinecam could not give one instance of a “LEFTY” being suspended…EVER!
The “FRAUD MOD SQUAD”… use different “nicknames” although that violates the TOS…They participate in a thread as a “forum” member…then when the heat gets to hot..the “FRAUD MOD SQUAD” puts on the Mod hat and attempts to “moderate” a thread they helped to inflame…Under the name of a “Forum Moderator!”
Pinecam was once a FABULOUS Site! It has since turned into the “285 Facist/Marxist Corridor!”
You couldn’t be more correct. Site is full of blind partisanship and raving lunatic liberals. . .while these liberals are free to abuse, bait and ridicule any conservative veiwpoints, the few remaining conservatives on the board are in constant censure. Sure wish you’d make your rounds there more often.
Particulary hilarious is a user named ‘wapiti5′. . .out of one side of the mouth they’ll make derogatory comments, then out of the other cry “baiting, . . Ridiculing”. . like a stuck pig.
Oh well. . .at least even when my posts are censored, the pigs have already seen it. Deviod of it being removed or not, their pride still stings at the truth behind it.
So if any of you raving lunatics from their ever see this. . .NYAAAAAAA!!!. . . I’m still king of MY hill!!!
Thanks CC
I never go to Pinecam anymore. I was very appreciative of its service during the mountain wildfires that propelled it to statewide attention, but it has become nothing but a clique of middle-school level gossip and related activities. Every now and then the Cosmic wife will check in on things.
Well, I found this quite by chance. I wonder who you are, though I can guess:)
I just stay away from the study. . . . period!!! LOL
Well I just joined an elite group of people who value freedom speach, I have been warned and banded for just asking people to compare and contrast what the moderators change or remove. That was considered inaproprate thinking and was deemed unacceptable to a moderator that calls himself Shriff Andy.
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mtspike
Oh my, Big Time poster!
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: Hesperus
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: Study topics
——————————————————————————–
Since various topics disappeared from the Study today, perhaps the mods could educate the Pinecam posters on what is allowable and what is not? Why certain topics are not allowed, why certain posts violate the TOS?
Enquiring minds want to know. or else move on.
_________________
“As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience’s sake. ” President Barack Obama
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wolfpak
Scanner Monitor
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 7740
Location: above 7500 feet-at all times
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject:
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I believe they are working on the ‘new’ system–as I said in other thread–be patient–it’s been 1 day. A broad removal of posts does not indicate that ALL posts were in question- some will in all likely hood return–or not.-it’s a learning process that will take more than a few hours to adjust to.
Patience wins the prize. In order to form a more civil forum…..
_________________
You lose the war when you change your principles of behavior…
Oliver Stone on the Bush policy of torture-2009
We have a military that is at war…
and a nation that is not….
There is no shared sacrifice in this war….
General Honore
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Sheriff Andy
Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 2155
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Study topics
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mtspike wrote:
Since various topics disappeared from the Study today, perhaps the mods could educate the Pinecam posters on what is allowable and what is not? Why certain topics are not allowed, why certain posts violate the TOS?
Enquiring minds want to know. or else move on.
Posts and topics were removed for various violations of the Terms of Service and violations of Copyright law.
The Terms of Service for the Study is easily accessible and is at the top of the Study Index. Please take a few minutes and read it.
To be blunt, I’m sorry but we (Mods) don’t have the time to provide a detailed explanation of why each post/topic was edited or removed other than that they did violate some portion of TOS. Sometimes posts quoting earlier posts that were in violation also were removed.
_________________
If people were civil to one another in their online debates, there would be no need for active moderation.
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okay
Moderator
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Pinecam
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject:
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wolfpak is correct. There are two experienced Mods in here this evening, the new Mods are trying their skills on this first day.
It is not a question of what topics are allowed, all are allowed. Many posters today have been fine but there a few who push the limits with other posters and are demanding. Other posts then get off topic. It snowballs from there and the only thing to do is lock the thread or send it out of public view until the offending posts are removed.
Because of removing offending posts, some of the others do not make sense so they need to be removed as well. It does not mean they are not allowed, they do not make sense if the previous post was removed. Hope that makes sense.
We actually do not want the Study posters to leave, or not be able to discuss topics of their choosing. There will be an adjustment time with posters and Mods alike.
We need to be clear with the intent of the Study as it is now and in the future. The TOS will be followed and no baiting or demanding answers will be tolerated.
Everyone here has an opinion, and that opinion is not wrong just because someone else does not share the same opinion.
I don’t know how to make this any clearer.
One thing to remember, if posts go away, a thread locked or other Mod function happens it does not mean that everyone has done something against the TOS. It could be ONE person who could not follow TOS ruined the thread for everyone. It’s unfortunate when that happens.
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homeagain
Oh my, Big Time poster!
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 4151
Location: Deer Creek Valley Ranchos
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:29 am Post subject:
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In this world of INSTANT gratification,apparently the Study is EXPECTED
to perform at the top of it’s game right from the get-go…….everything in
life has a LEARNING curve. Why can’t the new Mods, the “new” Study and
the NEW year be allowed to gracefully grow into their “new” potential???
_________________
The problems we face
will not be solved by
the minds that created them.
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cowboy
Posts pretty often
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Conifer
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:26 am Post subject:
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Well if you look around, compare and contrast. You will see that this has turned into a liberal site where words mean what they say they mean.
So as long as what you post is in line with the mods your A-OK if not be prepared to be banned or water boarded.
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AlwaysRight
Oh my, Big Time poster!
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 3091
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Study topics
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Sheriff Andy wrote:
To be blunt, I’m sorry but we (Mods) don’t have the time to provide a detailed explanation of why each post/topic was edited or removed other than that they did violate some portion of TOS.
Sometimes posts are a clear violation of TOS. Sometimes the violation is a matter of the mods’ interpretation and to the pinecam community, the reasoning is not so clear. I understand why the mods don’t have time to provide a detailed explanation, but a short explanation would help to educate pinecammers about how the mods expect us to behave.
_________________
Politics is not about ideology and it’s not about what’s best for america. It’s about POWER.
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Sheriff Andy
Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 2155
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:25 am Post subject:
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Mods do not want to take a specific post attributable to an individual and make a public put down of that specific, identified poster.
But for example a poster in this topic had a post removed because that post was not a discussion at all but merely an abusive slam at Pinecam Moderators.
That poster agreed per the TOS by posting in this forum that:
“You will not engage in public Moderator bashing within the forum(s). If you disagree with a Moderator decision, you can communicate with that Moderator or the Lead Moderator using the Private Message (PM) function to address your concerns. ” If that poster had a concern, poster could discuss those concerns with Mods or Board.
The time taken to address your concern takes time away from other moderating duties or our private lives. Most removals of posts or topics are very clear violations of the TOS, common courtesy or issues of law.
_________________
If people were civil to one another in their online debates, there would be no need for active moderation.
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monkeygirl
Stratospheric Poster!
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8884
Location: Conifer
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:39 am Post subject:
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cowboy wrote:
Well if you look around, compare and contrast. You will see that this has turned into a liberal site where words mean what they say they mean.
So as long as what you post is in line with the mods your A-OK if not be prepared to be banned or water boarded.
We have disproved this tired lie time and again. We have a pretty equal number of liberal and conservative posters and we liberals have our posts removed as often as the conservatives do. The main difference appears to be the reaction to being moderated.
_________________
“Ultimately, there is the freedom to take the consequences.”
~Terry Pratchett~
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The Viking
Stratospheric Poster!
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8711
Location: Kings Valley 9000 ft.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:21 am Post subject:
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monkeygirl wrote:
cowboy wrote:
Well if you look around, compare and contrast. You will see that this has turned into a liberal site where words mean what they say they mean.
So as long as what you post is in line with the mods your A-OK if not be prepared to be banned or water boarded.
We have disproved this tired lie time and again. We have a pretty equal number of liberal and conservative posters and we liberals have our posts removed as often as the conservatives do. The main difference appears to be the reaction to being moderated.
_________________
Sight is what you see with your eyes. Vision is what you see with your mind.
Live every moment as if it is your last, but in case it’s not, keep it legal.
Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registered or enter the forums!
Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registered or enter the forums!
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wolfpak
Scanner Monitor
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 7740
Location: above 7500 feet-at all times
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:44 am Post subject:
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not funny really–it’s how you percieve. I inquired last night by PM-recieved a very nice reply as to why our really great, civil conversation was wiped out ( like 6 pages worth) in the Airport Security thread. I was dissappointed and a little miffed–we were doing GREAT according to me.
It was nothing personal..we went way off topic–(and we did) the TOS states that off topic will be removed.
Learning curve. Business as usual in the Study is not going to fly, as is apparent by last nights trial run.
_________________
You lose the war when you change your principles of behavior…
Oliver Stone on the Bush policy of torture-2009
We have a military that is at war…
and a nation that is not….
There is no shared sacrifice in this war….
General Honore
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Officer Malone
Study Moderator
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Location: Standing Over Your Shoulder
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:45 am Post subject:
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I’m one of the new moderators. I have yet to take any action other than discussion of a problem post. I am still studying, making sure I understand my duties and obligations, etc. and trying to get a feel for my new responsibility. I appreciate your patience with us newbies. I’ll do my best because I believe in the importance of the Study.
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LOL Cowboy, I see things have not changed at all on Pinecam. You literally have a MODERATOR on Pinecam with an OLIVE STONE anti-Bush tag-line quotation claiming that the Study is equally conservative and liberal.
You know, in their minds, it probably is. That’s how far left they are.
I actually think it’s pretty pathetic that they still have anti-Bush taglines on their signatures. I mean how long will they keep hating that guy?
[...] commented on this before. In fact this was the subject that got me banned from Pinecam.com, a mountain community website where I live. Luckily I think it’s going to be hard for me to [...]
I am a bleeding heart liberal, but I was still banned (with no warning whatsoever) by the power hungry pc mods. For pointing out facts regarding teenage driving. Simple facts about the mods over there are that they do not want to hear truthful facts if they interfere with the rose colored lenses that they view their fiefdoms through. Sadly for their advertisers, I will not patronize them anymore, as I can not support censorship. So Aaron the plumber, Wolf the drywaller, Rocky the painter, and all the other folks I have hired from the classifieds over there, I am sorry, but you lost my business, because you support censorship. Too bad really, but take it up with the Marshals…
Because I challenged the connection between dope and crime (massive stats are available to so prove) I was banned from Pinecam. I now realize the exceptionally strong connections into the dope culture by the owners and moderators. This is not just liberalism but an effort to encourage dope use and possibly crime. The site can be closed and I am mounting an effort. We will see where it goes.
I will post here – please promulgate widely – a list of ALL advertisers on Pine Cam – this is THE way to shut down a shaky enterprise in bad economic times. The site is a menace to the 285 community.
Simply by looking at their home page we have the following links and advertisers – simply put do not use them. Once the word gets out pressure will be put on the management to adjust the massive liberal and pro dope positions. Democracy in action.
H&R block
Mountain High Integrity Plumbing
Front Range Water
Phydeaux Digs
SFA restaurant
Rocky Mountain Computer Services
Monster.com
Duragrove
Nutson line.com
Derby Champ
Life’s Atrip Travel
Heh… well, I don’t care to try to tell people where to shop, and I’ve mostly gotten well beyond PineCam’s little middle-school games, but you’re welcome to comment here, although I think CosmicConservative is something of an acquired taste…
It is amazing how many hits I get from people who have had problems with Pinecam though…
Your general take on Pine Cam is IMHO “right on”. BUT with the really important issues we face up here with Dope Farms and the Cartels (they are the funding sources for both legal fees for “medical dope” and the farms (are so in CAL BTW)) Pine Cam is indeed empowering the issue and not on the side of the citizens and their children. Making a buck on the misery associated with dope must be fought. I find that reprehensible and will work to shut them down and offer alternatives. Economice always rules – strip them of add fees and they will go away.
Here folks is a “real” pine cam constituent. I picked this up on a thread this AM – the thread started by this idiot is “Medical Marijuana” The Doper is complaining because Pine Cam has yet to permit adds for dope:
“hello. I am a legal local caregiver who placed an add yesterday only to get shut down by the moderator who is bias and discrimnatory!! The people of colorado voted this in ten years ago!! The people of colorado are your pine cam. My add in the pine cam had soo many responses in the short time i am still recieveing pms and phone calls. The moderators should quide content and watch for swear words or porn that is illegal. A moderator should not have the power to not like a subject that is legaL just decide to stop it. Your not listening to the poeople that want local help. In your comments to me you say that people who are legal don’t need to know where to go they allready know. First i am differt and local so i’m not the same, Thats like saying because i know how to eat i don’t need to know where the restraunts are.. Basically you just don’t want people of pine cam to have a choice. you decice for them iguess. I’ll just keep answering my pms and calls and addvertising in the courier and flume etc because they have no problem with legal biz. only the moderators of pine cam are too nieve and ignorant to get the legal stuff straight and give the people of colorado who voted for this a chance to have there meds bought locally not down in denver. Peace out ”
BTW at lease in Jefferson County (verified by DA) it is illegal to conduct “operation of ANY use involving the growing, processing or dispensing of marijuana”. That also leads to aiding any criminal activity that also supports the lawbreakers. Perhaps Pine Cam management is getting a bit uneasy.
SHUT DOWM PINE CAM – a dopers sand box.
No inside info (yet). But the thug that shot the kids today was reported to be “hanging around the school” days (weeks ?) before the shooting by a party on Channel 9 news. Also he was reported to be “dazed”. This will get really interesting I predict.
I was about to do a post on that…
You might like this.
http://groups.google.com/group/thepinecamtruth/topics
I have been banned from Pinecam again. Here’s how it happened.
A few weeks ago I decided that I’d finally go ahead and create a new PineCam account just to keep up with some local stuff. So I did. After a week of lurking, I finally posted on a couple of threads. One of the threads I was posting on was meandering along on some meaningless topic, and one of the commenters made some insulting comment about another commenter (neither of the commenters was me). The “moderators” then posted a message threatening to lock the thread if people weren’t “civil” to each other. I mean it was among the mildest exchanges I’ve ever seen on the internets, something along the lines of “what are you, an idiot or something?” And that generated this threat from the moderators to shut down the thread.
So I knew I was playing with fire, but I couldn’t help myself. I posted a response to the moderator comment pointing out that I read dozens, if not hundreds, of internet websites, forums and message boards and I had never seen such an immediate and draconian response from the moderators.
Within a few minutes my comment had been moved to a separate thread, and then simply deleted. So I posted another comment about the deleting of my first comment. Neither of them were rude or insulting, just “wow, I’ve never seen such heavy-handed moderation of a website” or something like that.
Then I got a private message warning me not to post “baiting” messages. The private message had some boilerplate text at the bottom encouraging the receiver to direct any questions or comments to the moderator team.
So I did. I responded to the private message letting them know that I wasn’t able to delete the second message and that I was sure they would want to based on their response to the first message.
Then I got two more private messages, one repeating the warning about “baiting” messages (which was apparently in response to my by-then-deleted second comment) and one responding to my direct reply by telling me how important it was for them to manage the “tone” of the message board since in their opinion people tended to get too hot and bothered and they weren’t going to put up with that. That included another warning about posting “baited” messages.
So I responded one more time letting them know that I had my own website and that I was very active on the internets and that I’d never seen any site resort to such draconian measures in an attempt to maintain a “Leave it to Beaver” level of discourse. I congratulated them on knowing the general maturity level of their members and asked their advice on the limit to the number of syllables in words I might use in my future posts. Then I assured them that I would do my best not to “rile up the natives” nor to “invoke the wrath of the omnipotent moderators.”
And bang. I was banned. Just like that. Not even an email or message letting me know. My account simply vanished.
LOL, it’s somewhat refreshing to see that PineCam has not changed one iota in several years.
In a completely dissimilar way, Dean did not ban me from Dean’s World for repeatedly arguing with him about Islamophobia. Of course I did stop when he made it clear he never wanted to hear about that subject from me again.
Yours,
Tom
HOLEE PHUK!! i got banned because i biched about all the damm cats comming in my yard killing what birds they can get at!! And i mentioned something about the grandkids stepping in thier crap!!!!These phukers wont even take the responsabilty of taking care of thier cats !! One point to make is ..the sherrifs dept .will do NOTHING about cat problems even the feral ones!! “Your such a cute little kitty…go kill some wildlife for mommy smooch smooch”" NO freedom of speech on pinecam!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi
I live in the Park County part of Pine.
ZY…….. caught on that I live in the foothills and not cripplecreek. IT wanted to know why I used the name I chpse, then stated it was not its
business. I ignorored the ignorant.
LOL!!! I was put on probation for 3 days as well….These guys on PineCam are out of control anf nutty!!! And the sad part is, they are a dictatorship….we have no power to speak or debate out stance.
It used to be FUN there, now it is just a nuisance!
I got banned again today by these freaks as well.
The fucknut known as RobertBaxter or whoever he is, that was allowed by PC to create a 2nd profile for the pirpose of railing on and on about the Rec District Election was going on saying his goodbyes, and I posted…
“Don’t let the door… ”
That’s it! Ha!
Fuck them.
I recommend two courses of actions. 1. Create as many accounts as you can and raise hell or do whatever you want. 2. join http://www.285bound.com and read this thread. http://285bound.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10075
The Truth
Un-Friggin’-believable! This is the post that just keeps on giving, and giving, and giving.
Seriously…I’ve been blogging for over 3 years now (27 years in blog years), and I’ve not seen one post with this much staying power. It must be some kind of record.
Why get banned, just walk away.
Why do need assurance to know assholes when you smell them the first time? I walked away 5 years ago and I find these blog responses pitiful.
F*ck em.
I would like to use pine cam and respond to adds and other things but this stupid site wont let me sign in under any user name or pass word,try to reregister or correct what ever error was made but there is no one to call no phone number to call for help with the site.this site would be great for someone like me that lives here in the moutains,……… if it wasent so half assed. add a help line number!!!!
Mtn Boy, there is a highway 285 site that serves the same area. I wouldn’t waste any time on the digital brownshirts that run Pinecam.
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